Discussion:
[Bug-apl] update for the help.def
Alexey Veretennikov
2017-04-21 18:31:19 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

Here is the patch for extended documentation for arithmetical functions
+,-,×,÷,*

Please take a look and take a look at the output, if the format is ok.
If it is ok I'll continue to write extended documentation for other
functions/operators with examples.
e***@gmx.com
2017-04-21 18:40:46 UTC
Permalink
Just a suggestion - why not also attach the full 'new' help.def and not just the patch - missing a patch would be disasterous ;)

On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 20:31:19 +0200
Post by Alexey Veretennikov
Hi,
Here is the patch for extended documentation for arithmetical functions
+,-,×,÷,*
Please take a look and take a look at the output, if the format is ok.
If it is ok I'll continue to write extended documentation for other
functions/operators with examples.
Alexey Veretennikov
2017-04-21 21:01:01 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

Sure here it is. Don't expect anything big in it - it is just a couple
of lines of text.
e***@gmx.com
2017-04-21 22:28:56 UTC
Permalink
Thanks you guys doing this )help is really appreciated - maybe I can make a contribution too

line 13 but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of ; -> , for oxford comma?

references :

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/what-is-the-oxford-comma-and-why-do-people-care-so-much-about-it/

http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/Missing-Comma-Could-Cost-Maine-Company-Millions-416458593.html





On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 23:01:01 +0200
Post by Alexey Veretennikov
Hi,
Sure here it is. Don't expect anything big in it - it is just a couple
of lines of text.
Juergen Sauermann
2017-04-22 14:25:52 UTC
Permalink
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Hi,<br>
<br>
this sentence is the verbatim copy of the phrase proposed in <a
href="https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.txt">https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.txt</a><br>
<b> </b>(chapter 17) and I do not feel like criticising the GNU
project for their spelling.<br>
<br>
/// Jürgen<br>
<br>
</font><br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 04/22/2017 12:28 AM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:***@gmx.com">***@gmx.com</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:***@gmx.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">

Thanks you guys doing this )help is really appreciated - maybe I can make a contribution too

line 13 but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of ; -&gt; , for oxford comma?

references :

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.grammarly.com/blog/what-is-the-oxford-comma-and-why-do-people-care-so-much-about-it/">https://www.grammarly.com/blog/what-is-the-oxford-comma-and-why-do-people-care-so-much-about-it/</a>

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/Missing-Comma-Could-Cost-Maine-Company-Millions-416458593.html">http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/Missing-Comma-Could-Cost-Maine-Company-Millions-416458593.html</a>





On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 23:01:01 +0200
Alexey Veretennikov <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:***@gmail.com">&lt;***@gmail.com&gt;</a> wrote:

</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi,

Sure here it is. Don't expect anything big in it - it is just a couple
of lines of text.

</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">

</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>
e***@gmx.com
2017-04-26 14:29:15 UTC
Permalink
http://www.theonion.com/americanvoices/oxford-comma-wins-court-case-workers-55578


On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 16:25:52 +0200
Hi,
this sentence is the verbatim copy of the phrase proposed in https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.txt
 (chapter 17) and I do not feel like criticising the GNU project for their spelling.
/// Jürgen
Thanks you guys doing this )help is really appreciated - maybe I can make a contribution too
line 13 but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of ; -> , for oxford comma?
https://www.grammarly.com/blog/what-is-the-oxford-comma-and-why-do-people-care-so-much-about-it/
http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/Missing-Comma-Could-Cost-Maine-Company-Millions-416458593.html
On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 23:01:01 +0200
Hi,
Sure here it is. Don't expect anything big in it - it is just a couple
of lines of text.
Kacper Gutowski
2017-04-26 19:11:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@gmx.com
line 13 but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of ; -> , for oxford comma?
FWIW, it wouldn't be an Oxford comma because there isn't any kind of enumeration
here. The clause starting with "without even" clarifies the meaning of
"any warranty" and could be easily made into an independent sentence.

-k
Juergen Sauermann
2017-04-27 11:44:15 UTC
Permalink
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Hi,<br>
<br>
the Oxford Comma is definitely broken because 'and' is dyadic:<br>
<br>
<font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace"><b>      1, 2, 3, ∧ 4</b><b><br>
</b><b>VALENCE ERROR</b><b><br>
</b><b>      1,2,3,∧4</b><b><br>
</b><b>            ^<br>
<br>
</b><b></b><b>      1, 2, 3 ∧ 4</b><b><br>
</b><b>1 2 12</b><br>
</font><br>
<br>
/// Jürgen<br>
<br>
</font><br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 04/26/2017 04:29 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:***@gmx.com">***@gmx.com</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:***@gmx.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.theonion.com/americanvoices/oxford-comma-wins-court-case-workers-55578">http://www.theonion.com/americanvoices/oxford-comma-wins-court-case-workers-55578</a>


On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 16:25:52 +0200
Juergen Sauermann <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:***@t-online.de">&lt;***@t-online.de&gt;</a> wrote:

</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi,

this sentence is the verbatim copy of the phrase proposed in <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.txt">https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.txt</a>
 (chapter 17) and I do not feel like criticising the GNU project for their spelling.

/// Jürgen


On 04/22/2017 12:28 AM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:***@gmx.com">***@gmx.com</a> wrote:


Thanks you guys doing this )help is really appreciated - maybe I can make a contribution too

line 13 but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of ; -&gt; , for oxford comma?

references :

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.grammarly.com/blog/what-is-the-oxford-comma-and-why-do-people-care-so-much-about-it/">https://www.grammarly.com/blog/what-is-the-oxford-comma-and-why-do-people-care-so-much-about-it/</a>

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/Missing-Comma-Could-Cost-Maine-Company-Millions-416458593.html">http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/Missing-Comma-Could-Cost-Maine-Company-Millions-416458593.html</a>





On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 23:01:01 +0200
Alexey Veretennikov <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:***@gmail.com">&lt;***@gmail.com&gt;</a> wrote:

Hi,

Sure here it is. Don't expect anything big in it - it is just a couple
of lines of text.




</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">

</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>
Louis de Forcrand
2017-04-27 17:49:31 UTC
Permalink
JÃŒrgen,

At first I thought I had been doing it wrong all these years, and that now I finally had seen the light, but in J:

1, 2, 3 & 4!!!
|domain error
| 1,2, 3&4!!!
1, 2, 3, & 4!!!
1 , 2 , 3 ,&4 ! ! !

What are we going to do???

Louis
Hi,
1, 2, 3, ∧ 4
VALENCE ERROR
1,2,3,∧4
^
1, 2, 3 ∧ 4
1 2 12
/// JÃŒrgen
Post by e***@gmx.com
http://www.theonion.com/americanvoices/oxford-comma-wins-court-case-workers-55578
On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 16:25:52 +0200
Hi,
this sentence is the verbatim copy of the phrase proposed in https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.txt
(chapter 17) and I do not feel like criticising the GNU project for their spelling.
/// JÃŒrgen
Thanks you guys doing this )help is really appreciated - maybe I can make a contribution too
line 13 but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of ; -> , for oxford comma?
https://www.grammarly.com/blog/what-is-the-oxford-comma-and-why-do-people-care-so-much-about-it/
http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/Missing-Comma-Could-Cost-Maine-Company-Millions-416458593.html
On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 23:01:01 +0200
Hi,
Sure here it is. Don't expect anything big in it - it is just a couple
of lines of text.
Peter Teeson
2017-04-27 18:27:35 UTC
Permalink
Being educated in England, up to and including Grammar school, use of the Oxford comma in literature was the norm.
But we were never told that it was called that; just to use it! Life is more orderly when we can name things. <smile>

<https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/explore/what-is-the-oxford-comma <https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/explore/what-is-the-oxford-comma>>

Peter
Post by Louis de Forcrand
JÃŒrgen,
1, 2, 3 & 4!!!
|domain error
| 1,2, 3&4!!!
1, 2, 3, & 4!!!
1 , 2 , 3 ,&4 ! ! !
What are we going to do???
Louis
Juergen Sauermann
2017-04-27 19:01:16 UTC
Permalink
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Hi Louis,<br>
<br>
I am not at all a J programmer, but I remember that in old APL the<b>
'and'</b> was purely boolean (giving<br>
a domain error as well if the arguments were not 0 or 1), but the
ISO standard for extended APL then<br>
allowed non-boolean arguments as well (and the result is then the
least common multiple (aka. LCM)<br>
 of the arguments).<br>
<br>
I suppose that J is still behaving like the old APL for dyadic
&amp;. No idea, though what monadic &amp; does in J, it seems<br>
to have a meaning there? Or was it the !!! that cause the error?
One more reason to use APL.<br>
<br>
/// Jürgen<br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 04/27/2017 07:49 PM, Louis de
Forcrand wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:8805F8F2-7DF4-48B5-B562-***@bluewin.ch"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div>Jürgen,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At first I thought I had been doing it wrong all these years,
and that now I finally had seen the light, but in J:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"> 
 1, 2, 3 &amp; 4!!!</span></div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">|domain
error</span></div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">|
  1,2,    3&amp;4!!!</span></div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"> 
 1, 2, 3, &amp; 4!!!</span></div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">1
, 2 , 3 ,&amp;4 ! ! !</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What are we going to do???</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Louis</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On 27 Apr 2017, at 13:44, Juergen Sauermann &lt;<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:***@t-online.de">***@t-online.de</a>&gt;
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Hi,<br>
<br>
the Oxford Comma is definitely broken because 'and' is
dyadic:<br>
<br>
<font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace"><b>      1, 2,
3, ∧ 4</b><b><br>
</b><b>VALENCE ERROR</b><b><br>
</b><b>      1,2,3,∧4</b><b><br>
</b><b>            ^<br>
<br>
</b><b>      1, 2, 3 ∧ 4</b><b><br>
</b><b>1 2 12</b><br>
</font><br>
<br>
/// Jürgen<br>
<br>
</font><br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 04/26/2017 04:29 PM, <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:***@gmx.com">***@gmx.com</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:***@gmx.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.theonion.com/americanvoices/oxford-comma-wins-court-case-workers-55578">http://www.theonion.com/americanvoices/oxford-comma-wins-court-case-workers-55578</a>


On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 16:25:52 +0200
Juergen Sauermann <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:***@t-online.de">&lt;***@t-online.de&gt;</a> wrote:

</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi,

this sentence is the verbatim copy of the phrase proposed in <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.txt">https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.txt</a>
 (chapter 17) and I do not feel like criticising the GNU project for their spelling.

/// Jürgen


On 04/22/2017 12:28 AM, <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:***@gmx.com">***@gmx.com</a> wrote:


Thanks you guys doing this )help is really appreciated - maybe I can make a contribution too

line 13 but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of ; -&gt; , for oxford comma?

references :

<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.grammarly.com/blog/what-is-the-oxford-comma-and-why-do-people-care-so-much-about-it/">https://www.grammarly.com/blog/what-is-the-oxford-comma-and-why-do-people-care-so-much-about-it/</a>

<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/Missing-Comma-Could-Cost-Maine-Company-Millions-416458593.html">http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/Missing-Comma-Could-Cost-Maine-Company-Millions-416458593.html</a>





On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 23:01:01 +0200
Alexey Veretennikov <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:***@gmail.com">&lt;***@gmail.com&gt;</a> wrote:

Hi,

Sure here it is. Don't expect anything big in it - it is just a couple
of lines of text.




</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>
Louis de Forcrand
2017-04-27 22:43:39 UTC
Permalink
JÃŒrgen,

Actually '&' is a dyadic operator:

x u&v y <-> (v x) u v y

It's also the currying operator when applied to a function and data (keep in mind there is no strand notation in J):

u&y x <-> x u y <-> x&u y

The error is because & is being fed two numbers, when it can only digest one non-function argument at most.

Makes J look excessively complicated doesn't it :)

One does tend to get used to and appreciate it though. The choice of primitives (and, surprisingly enough, their very mnemonic ASCII symbols) was particularly well done. Logical 'and' is written '*.' and works like APL's dyadically. Monadically, it yields a pair of a number's magnitude and complex angle (in ]-pi,pi]), and this for each scalar of an array, thus adding a trailing dimension to it. A cool usage example is sorting a complex vector by angle, then length (useful for calculating a convex hull among other things):

/:~ &.: (|. @ *.) v

/:~ is sort, |. is reverse, *. is length/angle, @ is function composition, and &.: is an operator 'under' which applies the right function, then the left, then undoes the right one (applies its inverse, if applicable).

I do find such operations on complex data easier with primitives like this than having to use a dyadic circular function (whose left arg I always have to look up). I guess both languages have their quirks :)

Cheers, and keep up the good work JÃŒrgen; I second Peter's praise!
Louis
Post by Juergen Sauermann
Hi Louis,
I am not at all a J programmer, but I remember that in old APL the 'and' was purely boolean (giving
a domain error as well if the arguments were not 0 or 1), but the ISO standard for extended APL then
allowed non-boolean arguments as well (and the result is then the least common multiple (aka. LCM)
of the arguments).
I suppose that J is still behaving like the old APL for dyadic &. No idea, though what monadic & does in J, it seems
to have a meaning there? Or was it the !!! that cause the error? One more reason to use APL.
/// JÃŒrgen
Post by Louis de Forcrand
JÃŒrgen,
1, 2, 3 & 4!!!
|domain error
| 1,2, 3&4!!!
1, 2, 3, & 4!!!
1 , 2 , 3 ,&4 ! ! !
What are we going to do???
Louis
Hi,
1, 2, 3, ∧ 4
VALENCE ERROR
1,2,3,∧4
^
1, 2, 3 ∧ 4
1 2 12
/// JÃŒrgen
Post by e***@gmx.com
http://www.theonion.com/americanvoices/oxford-comma-wins-court-case-workers-55578
On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 16:25:52 +0200
Hi,
this sentence is the verbatim copy of the phrase proposed in https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.txt
(chapter 17) and I do not feel like criticising the GNU project for their spelling.
/// JÃŒrgen
Thanks you guys doing this )help is really appreciated - maybe I can make a contribution too
line 13 but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of ; -> , for oxford comma?
https://www.grammarly.com/blog/what-is-the-oxford-comma-and-why-do-people-care-so-much-about-it/
http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/Missing-Comma-Could-Cost-Maine-Company-Millions-416458593.html
On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 23:01:01 +0200
Hi,
Sure here it is. Don't expect anything big in it - it is just a couple
of lines of text.
Juergen Sauermann
2017-04-22 14:01:55 UTC
Permalink
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Hi Alexey,<br>
<br>
thanks, included in <b>SVN 928</b>. BTW in GNU APL <b>⍬</b> <i>is</i>
a niladic primitive function.<br>
<br>
/// Jürgen<br>
<br>
</font><br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 04/21/2017 11:01 PM, Alexey
Veretennikov wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:***@Mac-34363bcb361c.lan"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi,

Sure here it is. Don't expect anything big in it - it is just a couple
of lines of text.

</pre>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:***@gmx.com">***@gmx.com</a> writes:

</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Just a suggestion - why not also attach the full 'new' help.def and not just the
patch - missing a patch would be disasterous ;)

On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 20:31:19 +0200
Alexey Veretennikov <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:***@gmail.com">&lt;***@gmail.com&gt;</a> wrote:

</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi,

Here is the patch for extended documentation for arithmetical functions
+,-,×,÷,*

Please take a look and take a look at the output, if the format is ok.
If it is ok I'll continue to write extended documentation for other
functions/operators with examples.

</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>
Juergen Sauermann
2017-04-22 14:34:43 UTC
Permalink
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Hi,<br>
<br>
I would second that (already done, though).<br>
<br>
For me working with (changed) files is much easier than working
with patches, because I can<br>
simply override the changed file from my email client as opposed
to saving the patch to disk,<br>
cd to the proper directory, and then applying the patch.<br>
<br>
/// Jürgen<br>
<br>
</font><br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 04/21/2017 08:40 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:***@gmx.com">***@gmx.com</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:***@gmx.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
Just a suggestion - why not also attach the full 'new' help.def and not just the patch - missing a patch would be disasterous ;)

On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 20:31:19 +0200
Alexey Veretennikov <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:***@gmail.com">&lt;***@gmail.com&gt;</a> wrote:

</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi,

Here is the patch for extended documentation for arithmetical functions
+,-,×,÷,*

Please take a look and take a look at the output, if the format is ok.
If it is ok I'll continue to write extended documentation for other
functions/operators with examples.

</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">

</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>
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